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Lawrence Lumpf

from Radio - take 2*

* a previous excerpt is in Sugar Mule #1

>SIT DOWN AT THE TYPEWRITER<

Nothing given freely in joy with a happiness caused by a loose gut, an on-the-loose-life, a loose booty out and shaking with experiential smiles, kiss of life versus the kiss of lie, give and release all who must listen into a deep end, a deep grave, an entombment. Play your quasi-tones, your melodies of mistaken sound until drowning in nonsense a collapse is inevitable.

>TURN ON THE RADIO<

--...it was said you really went off the screen as far as media...

--Yeah, well what happened was, a couple of things happened, I was getting what I regarded as too much uncritical attention and uh I thought that people needed to keep this thing in question and thought that it would be a good time to withdraw, that was number one, not in importance, but that was certainly in my mind, and then something happened and that was it became clear to me that the visitors were real outside the human mind was availed to me that happened in a little town.

--You mean the incident in the book we've talked about?

--Yeah, it was like somebody was aware in that one moment that they would be completely clean in that little town. And what's remarkable about this is that our tradition is rich with symbolism that's repeated by the visitors. Tibetan Buddhism, numerology, the Masons, even in the Catholic Church there is a ceremony like this, there's also a pretty good rock song...

--Sure.

--And the criteria I set up was it had to be multiple witness encounters...

--I know the answer by the way if you want to know.

--Sure.

--The answer that I have had initially nothing at all to do with the UFO phenomena, uh but it has a lot to do, well, let me tell you how this happened. A reporter I know when to Northern Ireland, this was a while ago, before they had to peace talks and he got into contact with the IRA leadership as soon as he got into contact with the IRA leadership and he's outside of this UFO business completely, it's not a reference point in his head, he noticed a very strange thing started to happen. As soon as he would leave the house he was living in, black helicopters would appear overhead and shadow him and disappear and reappear again and he was having the same black helicopters experiences that UFO witnesses claim happens to them and that I've had and that other people have, and uh, now the black helicopters are nothing mysterious, a lot of military helicopters are black and don't show any markings below for a reason...

--Sure...

--...they don't want to do that, so I thought to myself so here's a legitimate question for the British Ministry of Defense from a reporter who has nothing to do with this, they won't have any reason to hide what they're up to from him, it's not classified. So I said to him, why don't query MOD about that and see what they say. And here's what he found out. That the helicopters contain surveillance devices, some of which are classified some of which are able to listen to a person's breathing and even their heartbeat, their words to test the stress that's in their voice as well as hear exactly what they're saying, can test their body temperature, incredible stuff like that, and they can build a profile of that person's psychological state with these devices aboard the helicopter.

--That's incredible.

--So what they were doing with him was basically a routine process because they were listening to his conversations because of the fact that he'd had this contact with the IRA, but what was interesting about this is was that all over the United States regular citizens have had these experiences...

--They've called into the show here...

--...are seeing these things not just in the context of being UFO witnesses but also in militias, and these are highly sophisticated surveillance devices is what they are.

--So these people aren't making these up?

--No! They're real and they're run by the US Army. I'm really concerned about them because I don't think it's legal any more than it's legal...

--...to wire-tap...

--to wire-tap without a court order.

--But you had an experience with the black helicopters.

--Yeah they come over fairly often. I had one that's not in the book that happened a few weeks ago where I was trying to get a new agent uh and after I had lunch with this agent we came out of the restaurant we were in in Westchester County and this black helicopter comes over and watches it for a few and then takes off...

--And he saw it as well...

--Yeah and so did my wife...and uh I was very concerned about it because I saw it as a level of surveillance that I don't think is legal.

--What does the Army want to know about you?

--Well, clearly something, but it bothers me a lot because I can't see anything against the law about being interested in UFO's I can't see any indication why an investigation of me would be taking place.

--Do you believe it has?

--Well, I'm certain of it. It goes to much more than that. I will tell you that in the back of this book there are some computer print-outs a hacker sent me on e-mail anonymously. At the time I got those print-outs I had been being questioned by a, uh, by a very nice man from the US Congress who was a staff member. He was, there was apparently one of the intelligence committees a level of concern that some illegal activities were going on related to UFO's. They weren't really investigating whether or not they really existed or whether there was a cover-up and what the cover-up may or may not know about them but whether the cover-up was illegally propagandizing the American people or illegally investigating the American people, uh, and uh, right after I sent them this data two things happened. This was an entry into my house, a virus was put on my computer, a very sophisticated virus and were some things stolen from the house probably to make it look like a burglary but the computer had been thoroughly worked over and all the files had been worked over too

--Who do believe did this?

--Well, uh, I can't tell who I believe did it, I can tell you what they did. To get into the house, they called the security system and this is all recorded in the security system's uh the security system, they used the master code to disable the security system which can only be done by the security company supposedly although they did finally discover that you can do it from any phone if you had the master code you can't anymore but you could then. Someone was then in the house for fifteen minutes, we don't when after that point they came in but fifteen minutes later my own personal code was used to re-enable the system. We were at the grocery store, thirty miles away, uh, someone had sophisticated knowledge of this system and the awareness of my master code which existed only in the files of the security company and in my head, uh, I don't believe this was a burglary.

--You believe you were nailed.

--Well, then subsequently another thing happened.

--There a gathering at MIT in Massachusetts, Institute of Technology, prominent, big-name school, a gathering of people who claim that same things happened to them that our guest claims happened to him and the guy who wrote this book is a straight, I mean he's not a UFO...

--New York Times reporter, well-respected...

--and he wrote the book called Friendly Fire, I mean he's a stand-up, reputable guy he goes to the conference and he writes this remarkable book, I'm about half way through, about meeting with this people and he comes to the conclusion...

--That there might well be something in it, yeah. And his only quibble is that they all said there would be other witnesses but they never could produce them. But in my book there's lots, not only multiple witness encounters, but structured so there's lots of people seeing something. The visitors went in sequence like from one room to the next in some points indistinguishable from real experience in every way, uh, it's not like group hysteria or anything. I've always said the best minds are foreclosed from looking at this because they just reject it out of hand.

--You told something I didn't know about that book, you said his research is funded by Lawrence Rockefeller.

--That's right, Lawrence Rockefeller funds him at the rate of about two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year. Lawrence Rockefeller is very involved in this stuff.

--That's amazing.

--Yeah, he's very involved. He's been trying, he's been approaching the White House to ask them to tell a look at it, to try and get them to make disclosures, to get them to release people who are under, under oath about this, to release them from their oath.

--These are military people?

--Well, whoever it may be, people who are...

--...in government?

--In government, people in private industry who are, who have signed security agreements. He's uh I don't personally, I would never take any money from Lawrence Rockefeller because I don't, I'm not quite sure about, there's a lot of secret societies that are involved peripherally in this to get some kind of level of participation or control over it. And I'm just one these cusses who goes for the free man doing his, or free woman doing her own thing kind of thing. So, to me I see the visitors coming to individuals so that's where I'm going.

--As sort of a final question in this part of the show and then we'll move on to after the nine o'clock, are they from another place, the Jungians all believe this is us...

--If it's us, it's from the future or the past, uh, it can't be us now the way we are, it's too separate...

--There's the story in the book, there's a woman, she says, 'Oh, you're ugly' and they say, "And someday you will be too.'

--Oh yeah, she's a witness, she's had three or four big witness encounters in her life. One time when she younger, she had a direct encounter like that and what does that mean, it means to me that it's real and we don't even understand enough now to speculate about it. Boy do we need to figure this out.

--One of the things I wanted you to go over because you cover so many things in the book, but cattle mutilations because they're back

--Yes...

--It's a very big thing here locally.

--I think there are two sources to cattle mutilations. And incidentally I've been receiving reports from South America of human beings who have had this happened to them. I don't think all of this is being done by aliens would be my guess. I was aware a couple of years ago, I didn't study it too deeply, I became aware while I was talking to these people from the Congress that there exists a program where the government analyzes the state of cattle because they apparently spewed out a lot of long lived dirty stuff from atomic tests in the fifties and then the building of atomic weapons at Rocky Flats and other places and they are looking for traces of plutonium and strontium ninety in the cattle and of course they're not telling anybody. I don't know if they're paying the ranchers off whose cattle are destroyed in this.

--I've talked to a lot of people and they tell amazing stories.

--Now the other part of it is it seems the visitors are doing the same thing and apparently there's a level of concern there about the state of our cattle too because what they take, you got to analyze the kind of tissues they take and it's very specific. They take tissues where there's a lot of cellular turnover like lips and tongues and hearts and rectums and things like that. This is where if there's an animal in trouble of some kind this is where you are going to see it first. If the animal has radiation poisoning the first place you'll see the damaged cell is where there are new cells being created the most quickly and that's where the tissues are being taken and that's what's surprising about it, it's kind of scary. Uh, there are reports of things like this happening to human cadavers and stuff also in different parts of the world and indeed in the New York Times this morning the federal government revealed that it was testing...

--Yeah, yeah...

--...human cadavers back in the Fifties, taking body parts without telling anybody.

--Places like Jackass Flats in Nevada they were setting up cadavers for testing...

--During testing, yeah, but this was they were secretly mutilating cadavers after, without telling the families or anything, and that's just been revealed today. So there's a level of government involvement in this.

--And you believe...

--But I think there's definitely cattle mutilations that are not explained by government involvement, if it's all government involvement I'm real surprised.

--One question then we'll turn it over to the callers. One story, cause I read a lot of these theories and read a lot of, I'm just attracted to it, that the government allows these things to happen in return for technologies, genes, there's weird stories about people who are abducted who see hybrid people.

--Yes, well, let me, let me, here's my take on all those stories, from people who outside of the UFO community, from people who have never heard of UFO's at all, I rarely saw, heard, anything remotely resembling those stories, that's number one, not to say they're not possible and that they wouldn't happen if there aliens here, number two, if there really aliens here our relationship with them initially is going to be real, real, weird, real hard to understand because they are coming from a different reality and what that means we don't even know yet, we don't even know. It's going to take a while for us to get this thing focused to the point where we understand it. For example, the cattle mutilations which seem so scary and weird and terrible to go to a slaughter house, you'll see so cattle mutilations there that will curl your hair, I mean, my father took me to one when I was nine, I talk about in the book, it's almost as if the visitors are going to this particular animal to study something and they have chosen it because they know we do this too they're trying to be it's actually not something horrifying but it's actually an effort to scare us as little as possible. These things always have two ways of looking at them.

--Fifteen after the hour with full lines, this is Bob in Belair, go ahead Bob...

--Ah, I had a question and I was real curious what are typically some of the symptoms that people experience after they've had this happen?

--Well, there's a lot of levels, one of the things that people bring to this is a symptom of missing time where they don't, they seem to have a couple of hours or something of missing time.

--The Betty and Barney Hill story...

--Right, the problem with bringing just this symptom is that then the only way to get any memories is hypnosis and hypnosis in the absence of some memories to hang it on is a problem because you don't whether you're telling real memory or constructing something and there's never any way to prove which it is. Until we know there are aliens here and we know what they're doing this hypnosis in the absence of any specific memories is going to be a problem.

--Bob, do you think this happened to you?

--Ah, possibly.

--Why so or how so?

--It started happening like flashshots or snapshots, I didn't go looking for it, it came to me.

--When you say flashes are you talking about memory flashes that were very vivid or things that seemed to be happening at that moment?

--No, it was memory flashes, it would be like a still snapshot that would just last for a fraction of a second.

--Okay, I will tell you this. Memory repression does occur in trauma. Like a person you see on the news, somebody in an airplane crash and they'll say well what happened? and he'll say from his hospital bed, well I don't remember a thing I was just suddenly out of the airplane. Uh, that kind of memory can be gotten at, uh, through stress reduction techniques, the careful use of hypnosis by a skilled professional who doesn't lead you on who'll do this very neutrally. I always say to someone who wants to get hypnotized well you're better off with somebody who doesn't believe anything about this and you know they don't because hypnosis is a request for a narrative, it's not a request for the truth. It's actually they're saying, the mind regards this as well tell a story.

--What would you recommend to Bob. Now, Bob, what do you see in the flashes?

--I don't have a lot of detail available to me, but to give you a little background my best recollection is at age nine in a farmhouse in Iowa, ah, the recollection of just sitting straight up in bed and the doorway to the bedroom eight ten feet in front of me, two figures standing there maybe six inches taller than the doorknob... the flashes don't come in sequence of any kind. I don't go looking for this.

--When did the flashes start?

--Ah, I'd say three four years ago.

--Under what conditions in your life? Were you having, was there anything in your life going on that might have been somehow related to this? Were you reading anything about UFO's or anything like that?

--Ah, no, I wasn't. The thing that may have been an impact was looking at a picture of an alien I saw, all of sudden it was like oh man what is that?

--It was familiar?

--Ah, yeah, and it was real scary that it was familiar.

--The thing about, I would say a third or more of my letters say something similar to that. We have to be real careful as we proceed into this, one of the problems that can happen is that what if a lot of what we think it happening is folklore based on mis-skewed memories and confusion? And then suddenly the visitors show up over Phoenix or El Paso like they did over Mexico City in 1991? All the networks get video and we all know they're real, we all know it then, how do we sort out the difference between what's real and what's folklore, we've got a big problem right there. So I would say try to relax about it, give yourself a little time everyday to tell yourself it's okay to remember this and see if you can build something yourself out of you without, don't try to push it into alien contact if that's not what it is.

--And it scares you Bob?

--I really wouldn't know how to describe it. In some ways I'm really curious to find out if it's imagination or really experience. Other days, I look it and say do I really want to know. It's difficult to discuss it with people.

--That's that thing in Hiby's book, you know how come it's only a couple of red-necks fishing in Georgia that this stuff happens too? Well, it's not but these are the guys willing to talk because they're just stupid, honest people. It's twenty after the hour and we need to break for traffic. . .

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